Talk:António Corea

António Corea is currently a World history good article nominee. Nominated by seefooddiet (talk) at 00:49, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

An editor has reviewed the article, and left comments on the review page. However, this editor has requested a second opinion either from a more experienced reviewer, or someone with more expertise on this subject, to gain further consensus that this article meets the good article criteria. In the meantime, editors are encouraged to revise the article based on the first reviewer's comments.

Short description: First Korean to visit Europe (fl. 16th/17th c.)

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A fact from António Corea appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 29 February 2024 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the slave António Corea may have been the first Korean to visit Europe?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2024/February. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/António Corea.

Wikipedia

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 23:20, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

... that the first Korean to ever visit Europe was possibly the slave António Corea? Source: [1] The Rome-based reporter said he may have found the living descendants of Antonio Corea, who was believed to be the first Korean man in Europe.
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Wendell Steavenson

Created by Toobigtokale (talk). Self-nominated at 11:12, 9 February 2024 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/António Corea; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.[reply]

Article is new enough and long enough. The article is a great story and is certainly presentable. I was able to find the quote that the hook is based on in the linked article, but I am somewhat dubious of it. The authors don't give attribution as to who exactly believes Antonio was the first Korean in Europe. I'm also not familiar with "JoongAng Daily", and I just want to confirm it has justification for use as a reliable source. It would be great if you could include the historical research article that actually proposes the theory that Antonio was the first, in addition to this news piece. Further, I'd like to recommend the following ALT hook to improve readability:

ALT1: ...that António Corea may have been the first Korean to visit Europe?

Please drop me a ping when you respond to the aforementioned issues, and we'll get this nomination through! Fritzmann (message me) 17:38, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, thanks for the review! Korea JoongAng Daily is the English-language version of JoongAng Ilbo, considered one of the most prominent newspapers in South Korea. The English-language version isn't known for having a particular political bias, especially for topics like these. For an alternate source, check out this academic book: [2].

I think the detail about him being a slave is what makes the hook interesting. Can we use:

ALT2: ...that the slave António Corea may have been the first Korean to visit Europe?

toobigtokale (talk) 20:25, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Fritzmann2002: Pinging toobigtokale (talk) 20:27, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

looks good! I missed that you cited the article in addition to the news site, that's my bad. ALT2 is all set, congrats! Fritzmann (message me) 23:05, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Musician Chick Corea - distant descendant?

His article mentions that his father’s ancestors came from Albi, which, combined with his surname, would seem to tag him as a likely direct descendant of António. However, this would by WP:SYNTH unless we can find a reliable source explicitly connecting the two. Be on the lookout for one.LonelyBoy2012 (talk) 01:52, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Whoa! Interesting connection. Love Chick's music. toobigtokale (talk) 12:31, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dates

There's some funkiness with dates; why do Weststeijn and Gesterkamp say 6 July for their arrival in the Netherlands, and Carletti 7 July? The two scholars give two citations for the claim, but don't explain the discrepency further.

Also I just caught this interesting detail in their paper: Other archival sources suggest that another Korean was present in Zeeland slightly later: a Dutch merchant in Japan, Jacques Specx, had as his servant ‘een Coreer, die voor een bootsgesel met de Japansche vaert ende voor desen met eenich Hollants schip in Zeeland gheweest’. Cornelis van Neyenrode to J.P. Coen, 17 February 1628, in: Coolhaas 1919, vol. 7, part 2, 1226-1227 (and cf. 1257); according to Chi & Walraven 2003, 40-41, this man may have been Rubens’s model. May do something with this info later. 104.232.119.107 (talk) 19:50, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

GA review

This review is transcluded from Talk:António Corea/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Seefooddiet (talk · contribs) 00:49, 15 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: Borsoka (talk · contribs) 03:24, 12 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

Is it well written?
A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:

B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:
Is it verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check?
A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:

B. Reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose):

C. It contains no original research:

D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:
Is it broad in its coverage?
A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:

B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):
Is it neutral?
It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:
Is it stable?
It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:
Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?
A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content:

B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:
Overall:
Pass or Fail:

Image review

~~File:Francesco Carletti.png: source is missing at Commons; a licensing problem is mentioned at Commons.~~
~~File:Peter Paul Rubens - Man in Korean Costume, about 1617.jpg: US PD tag is needed at Commons.~~ Borsoka (talk) 03:34, 12 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Removed first image. Added US-PD tag. seefooddiet (talk) 03:37, 12 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

A primary source, Carletti is extensively cited. Why do you think this approach is fully in line with relevant policy. It says that "Primary sources that have been reputably published may be used in Wikipedia, but only with care, because it is easy to misuse them." Borsoka (talk) 03:34, 12 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think there's significant reason to believe the source is reporting unreliable information. The primary source has pretty detailed information that I found difficult to find in other sources. The one contentious point of information is on the nature of the interaction with the Dutch mariners; I attribute the perspective inline to Carletti, but am willing to listen to feedback on how to adjust further. If you think I should bring in more third-party sources for this I can do that in the course of this review promptly. seefooddiet (talk) 03:42, 12 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I think reliable secondary (and to a lesser extent tertiary) sources are needed. We cannot publish in WP his detailed biography based on a primary source. Borsoka (talk) 04:16, 12 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for delay. I did more searching for academic sources in Korean and English but had a hard time finding more (particularly more recent ones) that have that level of detail. So just stripped out most of Carletti's writings. Let me know if should be further adjusted. seefooddiet (talk) 19:42, 16 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Borsoka: pinging seefooddiet (talk) 18:44, 20 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

Carletti briefly wrote of this in his travelogue My Voyage Around the World: ... Could you add a reference to a secondary/tertiary source?
- Done seefooddiet (talk) 05:35, 22 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Carletti went to Paris, Lyon, Turin, Milan, Bologna, then finally arrived in Florence on 12 July 1606. Could you add a reference to a secondary/tertiary source?
- Couldn't find non-primary source for this info, so just deleted. seefooddiet (talk) 05:35, 22 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Which source verifies note "a"?
- Ditto with above seefooddiet (talk) 05:35, 22 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Why does the subsection about his alleged descendants preceede the possible details of his life?
- Reordered seefooddiet (talk) 05:35, 22 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Anunchi Ita is quite obviously not an Italian name. Perhaps Annunziata?
- Speculating that "Anunchi" was transliterated from some other language to Korean and then to English, and orig spelling is lost. I can't find orig spelling. I just removed the spelling altogether from this article and replaced with "Italian woman". seefooddiet (talk) 05:35, 22 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
...a Corea Square... Why do you use the indefinite article?
- I removed the indefinite article. I used it originally because the given source doesn't specify when the "Corea Square" was established. I think it's reasonably common for people to describe bits of trivia like this using an indefinite article, but not too important here I think. seefooddiet (talk) 05:35, 22 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Introduce MBC.
- Done seefooddiet (talk) 05:35, 22 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Introduce Kwak Cha-seop.
- Done seefooddiet (talk) 05:35, 22 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Introduce Kim Seong-u.
- Done seefooddiet (talk) 05:35, 22 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
... Corea is the subject... Why simple present instead of past perfect?
- Done seefooddiet (talk) 05:35, 22 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Introduce Kwak Cha-seop.
- Done seefooddiet (talk) 05:35, 22 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Introduce Weststeijn and Gesterkamp.
- Done seefooddiet (talk) 05:35, 22 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Borsoka (talk) 03:39, 22 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Borsoka: Adding subbullets seefooddiet (talk) 05:31, 22 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I also managed to find a recent scholarly article and added some more details to the article. seefooddiet (talk) 08:41, 22 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Borsoka: pinging, been a while seefooddiet (talk) 19:00, 30 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I have been thinking of the best approach. My problem is that core information about António Corea is based solely on a primary source. I think this is not fully in line with GA2c, so I seek a second opinion. Borsoka (talk) 04:51, 31 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know nomination

Musician Chick Corea - distant descendant?

Dates

GA review

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