Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Silvan Elves

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Sundering of the Elves#Eldar. (non-admin closure) buidhe 06:26, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Silvan Elves

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Silvan Elves (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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This small subgroup of Tolkien's fictional elves has not been paid much attention by critics, and the topic does not merit a separate article given we already have Elf (Middle-earth) and Sundering of the Elves. I'd suggest merging to the second of those but without reliable secondary sources there's almost nothing to merge. Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:33, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions. Toughpigs (talk) 21:04, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Science fiction and fantasy-related deletion discussions. Toughpigs (talk) 21:04, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

• Comment, sorry but rather than "This small subgroup of Tolkien's fictional elves .." aren't these the elves (also rendered as "wood elves") that play key roles in The Hobbit, capturing the company in Mirkwood, and being involved in the Battle of the Five Armies? Coolabahapple (talk) 06:36, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
• Delete Fails WP:GNG. Entirely original research, and therefore, nothing to merge. No obvious target, and therefore it is better if users utilize the search function._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 07:24, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
• Comment, the Silvans are a major subgroup of the Nandors, so at least would suggest that a redirect target could be Nandor (Middle-earth), but that was subject to the afd: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nandor (Middle-earth) that resulted in a merge to Teleri, the nominator (hi Chiswick Chap:) has been bold and turned the Teleri article into a redirect to Elf (Middle-earth)#History (btw, goes to top of that article as there is no "History" section), so a "redirect" target for this article could also be Elf (Middle-earth)#Fictional history, noting that Silvan Elves does receive around 80 to 100 views per day? Coolabahapple (talk) 08:36, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I've rewritten a couple of dozen Middle-earth articles with new scholarly discussion of their significance, and have brought several to GA status; my goal is to have an informative, accurate, and properly-cited coverage of Middle-earth, free of fancruft. The measure of notability is not what actions certain tribes or characters took in such-and-such a fiction; it is the extent they have been covered in reliable secondary sources. Legolas is the only wood-elf who is obviously notable, and has his own article; perhaps Thranduil (yeah, who?) might scrape by. I've updated the link. Chiswick Chap (talk) 09:04, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

Except that Legolas and Thranduil are not silvan elves. That would be like classing William the Conqueror as an Anglo-Saxon. Just because they rule over Silvan elves does not make them actual silvan elves. Of course Thranduil has the added oddity of lacking being named in any work where he actually appears.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:45, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

• Delete Thereis potential for lots of discussion about the meaning of Tolkien having the Silvan elves ruled over by other elves, what this means in the context of the colonialist world he was raised in, weather he ever conceptualized it in that context, etc. However until such discussions are created in reliable sources we lack enough indepth, reliable, secondary source material to create this article.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:42, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
• Delete or redirect to main article about elves of Middle-Earth. Silvan Elves don't have a dedicated entry in Tolkien Encyclopedia and I don't see any non-plot discussion of them. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 08:19, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
• Redirect to Sundering of the Elves#Eldar, where the Silvan elves are mentioned. Frankly, I doubt that any of the subtribes of elves are notable, likely just the main Elf (Middle-earth) article. Hog Farm (talk) 19:15, 17 March 2020 (UTC)

Happy to go along with that. Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:13, 17 March 2020 (UTC)

• Delete per Zxcvbnm, or redirect to Elf (Middle-earth). I'd oppose redirecting to Sundering of the Elves, which strikes me as similarly unlikely to be independently notable. – Arms & Hearts (talk) 18:03, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

Sundering already has multiple reliable sources but I can look out some more. It's a more specific target than Elf. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:13, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.