Talk:Amda Seyon I

Biography assessment rating comment

WikiProject Biography Summer 2007 Assessment Drive

The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 08:37, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Request

I'm going to add more information when I find it (I wish I had a copy of the Glorious Victories!), but until then, I want my additions to be copy-edited viciously. Also, does anyone know how to make the References show up in two columns? Those short ibids look bad, but there's really no reason to include all of the reference information again. — ዮም (Yom) | contribs • Talk 08:02, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Nevermind. I don't think it's possible, but I figured out how to get two columns in the reference section, but there's nothing to put in the other column. — ዮም (Yom) | contribs • Talk • E 20:40, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Quotations

I also have quotations that could be used, but I don't think they're all necessary (I might incorporate some myself):

(Amde Seyon) "Everything I have learnt about you, is it true or not? Have you burnt God's churches, killed Christians and forced those whom you have taken into your ocuntry to embrace your religion which is not the law of Christ, but that of the Devil your father?"(Pankhurst, Richard K.P. The Ethiopian Royal Chronicles. Addis Ababa: Oxford University Press, Inc., 1967, pp.16.)

(Sabr ad-Din) "I will not go to your palace. I will not present myself before you, and if you march against me I will not fear you because I have a more numerous army than you and soldiers trained in the handling of the sword horses, the bow, the shield and the spear....If you wish to attack me, come, the road is open, but if you do not come I will myself make war on you!"(Pankhurst, Richard K.P. The Ethiopian Royal Chronicles. Addis Ababa: Oxford University Press, Inc., 1967, pp.16.)

(Amde Seyon to his soldiers on 24 Yakatit =March 1-3? Not sure how to convert dates before 1900) "May God give you strength and victory, and may He come to your help!"(Pankhurst, Richard K.P. The Ethiopian Royal Chronicles. Addis Ababa: Oxford University Press, Inc., 1967, pp.16.)

(Soldiers to AS after first victories) "We annnounce to you good news, O King; we have defeated your enemy who wished to subjugate you, we have killed the inhabitants of his capital, made prisoners those who remained as well as his women and slaves, and we have spared only those who escaped. We have pillaged his treasures; we have found gold, silver, rich clothing, precious stones and utensils of bronze, iron, glass, and lead in considerable quantity."(Pankhurst, Richard K.P. The Ethiopian Royal Chronicles. Addis Ababa: Oxford University Press, Inc., 1967, pp.17.)

(AS's prayer) "Listen to the praer which I address to You from the bottom of my heart and do not reject the demand which I carry on my lips; do not close the doors of Your mercy to me because of my sins, but send Your good angel to guide me in the pursuit of my enemy who rose also against Your sheep and Your holy name." (Pankhurst, Richard K.P. The Ethiopian Royal Chronicles. Addis Ababa: Oxford University Press, Inc., 1967, pp.17-8.)

(governors and chiefs of royal army to AS) "Now, we can return to our country, because God has placed your enemies beneath your feet. The season of the rains approaches and it is time that we return to our country so that we do not perish in a strange land." (Pankhurst, Richard K.P. The Ethiopian Royal Chronicles. Addis Ababa: Oxford University Press, Inc., 1967, pp.18).

(AS's response) "Do not repeat in front of me what you have just said, for I will not leave so long as the ungodly Muslims make war on me, who am the King of all the Muslims of Ethiopia, and I have the confidence in the help of God."(Pankhurst, Richard K.P. The Ethiopian Royal Chronicles. Addis Ababa: Oxford University Press, Inc., 1967, pp.18.)

(Jamal ad-Din to AS) "I pray you, O King, return to your country; since you have named me governor I will do everything you wish. Besisdes, the country of the Muslims is ruined; spare what remains and leave the country so that the inhabitants can work and pay you their tribute; all the Muslims and I are your servants."(Pankhurst, Richard K.P. The Ethiopian Royal Chronicles. Addis Ababa: Oxford University Press, Inc., 1967, pp.18.)

(AS's response) "While I am attacked by wolves and dogs, by the sons of vipers and the children of evil who do not believe in the Son of God, I will never return to my kingdom, and if I leave without going as far as Adal I am no longer the son of my mother; let me no more be called a man, but a woman." (Pankhurst, Richard K.P. The Ethiopian Royal Chronicles. Addis Ababa: Oxford University Press, Inc., 1967, pp.18.)

(army giving a cry of alarm) "Where is our King? Let him deliver us from the hands of the unbelievers." (Pankhurst, Richard K.P. The Ethiopian Royal Chronicles. Addis Ababa: Oxford University Press, Inc., 1967, pp.19.)

(again) "Where is the King? Let him save us from the hands of these dogs." (Pankhurst, Richard K.P. The Ethiopian Royal Chronicles. Addis Ababa: Oxford University Press, Inc., 1967, pp.19.)

(third time, this time he responds) "Where is our King and lord who will snatch us from the hands of the unbelievers, because otherwise we will perish?" (Pankhurst, Richard K.P. The Ethiopian Royal Chronicles. Addis Ababa: Oxford University Press, Inc., 1967, pp.19.)

(AS) "O Lord Jesus Christ, save me from the hands of these barbarians, You who saved Your servant David from the spear of his enemy." (Pankhurst, Richard K.P. The Ethiopian Royal Chronicles. Addis Ababa: Oxford University Press, Inc., 1967, pp.19.)

(Zana Yamanu ?=Zene Yemenu? - chief of pages = blattengeta to the sick AS) "The enemy army, more numerous than all your troops, approaches, and we have returned to die with you." (Pankhurst, Richard K.P. The Ethiopian Royal Chronicles. Addis Ababa: Oxford University Press, Inc., 1967, pp.21.)

(Scouts to AS) "The entire earth cannot contain all these people [muslim army], and if they were to attack, all the people of Ethiopia, great and small, could not resist them." (Pankhurst, Richard K.P. The Ethiopian Royal Chronicles. Addis Ababa: Oxford University Press, Inc., 1967, pp.21.)

(Mother and wife to AS) "O, lord, how can you go to fight? Are your legs strong enough to allow you to run as before when you were in good health? Can your hand draw the bow or carry the shield and the spear? Have you bthe strength to ride the horse, enfeebled as you are by your illness?" (Pankhurst, Richard K.P. The Ethiopian Royal Chronicles. Addis Ababa: Oxford University Press, Inc., 1967, pp.21.)

(AS's response) "Must I die as a woman? No, I know how to die as a warrior!" (Pankhurst, Richard K.P. The Ethiopian Royal Chronicles. Addis Ababa: Oxford University Press, Inc., 1967, pp.21.)

(Queen Jan Mengesha to AS's mother) "Hold him back in the name of Christ and do not let him leave!"(Pankhurst, Richard K.P. The Ethiopian Royal Chronicles. Addis Ababa: Oxford University Press, Inc., 1967, pp.22)

(Mother to queen) "If he wishes to go I cannot prevent him. And why should I oppose his will when the unbelievers come to kill him? Shall I hold him so that they strike him in his tent? That idea is far from my thought; let him rather go and die like a man!" (Pankhurst, Richard K.P. The Ethiopian Royal Chronicles. Addis Ababa: Oxford University Press, Inc., 1967, pp.22.)

(AS to both of them) "Go back to your tents and do not follow me!" ((Pankhurst, Richard K.P. The Ethiopian Royal Chronicles. Addis Ababa: Oxford University Press, Inc., 1967, pp.22)

(AS) "Come to my help, God of Moses and of Aaron!" (to the priests) "Intercede for me with God, and do not forget me in your prayers!" (Pankhurst, Richard K.P. The Ethiopian Royal Chronicles. Addis Ababa: Oxford University Press, Inc., 1967, pp.22.)

(AS's prayer) "Most powerful God, merciful God and friend of men, protect Your people, do not let it perish because of its sins, but have pity on it in Your mercy,because You are sweet, clement and just; as for me do with me what You please!" ((Pankhurst, Richard K.P. The Ethiopian Royal Chronicles. Addis Ababa: Oxford University Press, Inc., 1967, pp.22.)

(After soldiers were fleeing at the sight of the Muslim army) "Stay a little to see how I fight, how I know how to die and what God will do today by my hand!" (Pankhurst, Richard K.P. The Ethiopian Royal Chronicles. Addis Ababa: Oxford University Press, Inc., 1967, pp.23.)

(during their flight) "Where are you going? Do you elieve you can today reach your provinces? Have you forgotten, besides, that it is I who raised you, nourished you, and covered you with ornaments of gold and silver and precious clothes!" (Pankhurst, Richard K.P. The Ethiopian Royal Chronicles. Addis Ababa: Oxford University Press, Inc., 1967, pp.23.)

(AS after winning the battle) "Glory to you, O christ, and to Your merciful Father and to the Holy Spirit [Ge'ez? (My guess) - Kibr la'ānta, Kristōs (hōy?), wa la'Ābuhu rūhūrū/mihrawi?, wa la Manfas Qiddūs]. It is You who have given us the victory, who have saved us from the hands of the unbelievers and who have saved me from becoming the prey of the enemy." (Pankhurst, Richard K.P. The Ethiopian Royal Chronicles. Addis Ababa: Oxford University Press, Inc., 1967, pp.25)

(Queen to AS) "Is it possible that you are still alive, O master King? It seems to me that this is a dream like those which one has during sleep and which disappear in waking. I see you today as in a dream, but I have no certainty that this is reality. Are you really alive, O King, my master?" [note master=husband=ba`āl, but this would be WP:OR] (Pankhurst, Richard K.P. The Ethiopian Royal Chronicles. Addis Ababa: Oxford University Press, Inc., 1967, pp.25-6.)

(AS to troops) "Speak to me frankly, without fear, and tell me what you think. Must we send back to our country our women and children, our followers and our servants who give us their care; or must we leave them here and go furhter?" [no one answers] "Speak openly and tell me what seems to you best, most useful and convenient. If your desire is to leave this very day and to return to Ethiopia, we will set forth this morning or this evening by day, or by night; we will set out at once if this pleases you. It is sometimes for the King to follow the council of his generals to follow that of the King; he who acts without taking advice is a madman. Tell me then, I beg you, if you are of the opinion that we alone should go forward, without taking our wives, our children, our followers, our servants and our goods? Have no fear; if you get on to your horses and mules I will have even better ones than yours for myself, and if you have rivers to swim across I will swim also with the strength of God, because He who came to my help in this war and who saved me from the hand of the unbelievers when you were absent can again drag me from danger: it is in Him that I put my confidence and my hope. Tell me what you wish!" (Pankhurst, Richard K.P. The Ethiopian Royal Chronicles. Addis Ababa: Oxford University Press, Inc., 1967, pp.26.)

(Hezba Egziabher - a priest of the royal chapel) "It is certain that it is God who delivered you from the hands of the unbelievers and that without His help we would not have been saved. Listen O King, it was not His powerful angesls, Mikael or Gabriel, whom God sent that day to bring us help and deliver us from danger, it was His own Son who descended from Heaveen to save us by His power from the hands of the Muslims." (Pankhurst, Richard K.P. The Ethiopian Royal Chronicles. Addis Ababa: Oxford University Press, Inc., 1967, pp.27.)

(AS to priest) "It seems to me that if the whole army of Ethiopia found itself in front of these people, even if the latter were without swords, bows, and spears, it could not in the space of six months have defeated them. But God, who can do all and whom no one can resist, annihilated them in an hour; He did not wish to remember my sins because HE is merciful and loves mankind." (Pankhurst, Richard K.P. The Ethiopian Royal Chronicles. Addis Ababa: Oxford University Press, Inc., 1967, pp.27.)

(general to AS) "You say the unbelievers came armed with their swords to make war on us in these plains; but what would you say of us when we make war on them and pursue them on horseback?" [then discussion which I don't have access to] (Pankhurst, Richard K.P. The Ethiopian Royal Chronicles. Addis Ababa: Oxford University Press, Inc., 1967, pp.27.)

(AS to soldiers again) "Tell me what you think. Shall we return to our country by the road we took in coming, or shall we take another? Answer me I beg you because one cannot conclude an affair by silence. Once you had reason to fear when you saw bursting on us that black cloud full of rain which obscured the sky and the earth—I mean that innumerable multitude of unbelievers—but today you have no longer anyhthing to dread since God has shown us His mercy and has saved us from the hands of our enemies." (Pankhurst, Richard K.P. The Ethiopian Royal Chronicles. Addis Ababa: Oxford University Press, Inc., 1967, pp.27-8)

(Soldiers' response) "You have fought for us night and day and you have delivered us from the unbelievers. Now allow us to return to our country." (Pankhurst, Richard K.P. The Ethiopian Royal Chronicles. Addis Ababa: Oxford University Press, Inc., 1967, pp.28.)

(AS's response) "It is proper for the animal to return to its pasturage. As for me this is my intention: we will cross the country of Talag [capital] in the kingdom of Adal, we will kill the unbelievers who are still there, and we will return to our country by another road." (Pankhurst, Richard K.P. The Ethiopian Royal Chronicles. Addis Ababa: Oxford University Press, Inc., 1967, pp.28).

I see some quotations that might be incorporated. What do others think? I also have quotations for other kings, by the way. — ዮም (Yom) | contribs • Talk • E 20:33, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Authors

When there isn't a conflict between authors, the expression of an opinion, or an unlikely statement, I propose we not directly say which author says what, as it's not good prose and seems unnecessary (a reader can follow the inline link to see who said it in these cases). I am doing that from now on (and changing those not following this). — ዮም (Yom) | contribs • Talk • E 04:42, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Addition of AD to years

IP 151.47.102.139 has added "AD" to all the years mentioned in the article. This is unecessary and unconventional. By convention, any date for which the area is unspecified is assumed to be AD/CE. One need only (and rarely) specify AD or CE, when BC/BCE era dates are being used, and there is some chance of confusion, that is not the case here. Paul August ☎ 23:09, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps this had to do with the 7-yr. diff. in Ethiopian years (at least currently). ? 211.225.32.222 06:48, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Nope, just a disgruntled user-cum-troll trying to make a point about dates (he disagreed with the use of AD at all, so used it everywhere to show how ridiculous that would be in a misguided attempt to prove his point). — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 19:28, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Good Article nomination on hold

The scorecard...

1. It is well written -Minor improvement needed

• Some minor capitalization issues, like in the lowercase muslim Rebellion of Haqq ad-Din I and Shewa, then populated mainly by muslims & other muslim provinces rebelled

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable - Clarity Requested

• There are two comments that it is not clear if they are referenced by the source that proceeds it a few sentences later. If they are related, I suggest rewriting it in such a way to eliminate the "weasel words"-i.e. Some have argued etc. If they are not related, these sources will need to be referenced on their own.
• I would recommend ISBN for the book references to ease in verification.

3. It is broad in its coverage-Yes

• Two areas that would be opportunities for expansion (providing reliable sources could be found) would be more info on his early life/ancestry and maybe an ending section about the lasting legacy. (In the intro you touch upon some themes).

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy -Yes

• I particularly commend the editors on this point.

5. It is stable -Yes

• There was a minor edit war in Mid-July but both sides were able to come to an amicable peace. As a whole the article has progressed gracefully.

6. It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic. -Yes

• This area is the weakest point since there is only a map illustration. However, I decided against making this a make or break factor in passing the article for Good Article status since an attempt to provide illustration for subject where images are scarces. This will be a hurdle if you wish to pursue FA status and I recommend more research into illustrations. Agne 04:11, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

I've added sources for the two places where you added fact tags; I had meant to put one for the first one in the first place, actually. I'll try and go through the article for capitalization issues, and add ISBNs as I still have the original sources. Early life will be difficult to cover, though I may be able to find some legends on his early life, but I think I can get some stuff on legacy. I think there are two more areas of expansion: his conflicts with Basalota Mika'el (which I believe led to other monks being exiled, though there may not be much info about them) and his feudal organization, but the latter applies to basically all Ethiopian Emperors post-1270 (and even before), so it isn't a big issue. Don't worry about stability, that edit war wasn't really over this article but a proxy war being fought over style issues regarding the use of "AD," and this article was targeted because Llywrch had edited it recently. I know images are a big weakpoint, but it's been difficult to find any good ones, even later images of him. I do have five black and white images of parts of structures attributed to him (in Annales d'Ethiopie, vol. 8, 1970, pp.48-9, Planches VI and VII to anyone who's interested), but I don't have a scanner and I don't think it'll qualify for fair use. I am trying to get this article to FA status, though, so I'll keep looking. Is there anything I need to address other than checking minor grammatical issues (since I've sourced the two sentences needing clarification)? — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 06:11, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

You've answered my main concerns. I was able to verify some of the book references offline but I still encourage you to go forward with adding the ISBN. I will pass the article as GA quality. I commend the editors for putting together a well written and informative article on an area of scholarship that is dreadfully scarce on the project. My suggestions for improvement towards FA were relayed above, namely the pictures and encouragement to expand. Again, good work. Agne 16:32, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

I couldn't find a ref. to birth date. Even if it is unknown, THAT should be mentioned, lest people spend a quarter hour searching and coming away confused and unsatisfied. 211.225.32.222 06:51, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Both his birthdate and death date are unknown. I suppose I took it for granted that its absence in the lead would make it obvious. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 19:27, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Automatic addition of "class=GA"

A bot has added class=GA to the WikiProject banners on this page, as it's listed as a good article. If you see a mistake, please revert, and leave a note on the bot's talk page. Thanks, _BOT Giggabot (talk) 04:40, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

GA Sweeps

This article has been reviewed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force. The article has a number of very positive points and one glaring problem alongside a few minor issues. To begin with, the article is very well-sourced and sounds in places very academic and interesting. Unfortunately, the standard of prose is not high, with numerous clumsy or confusing sentences that leave an unfamiliar reader (like me) somewhat non-plussed about certain aspects of the article. I've left a list of comments below, highlighting significant problems.

• The lead needs serious expansion to discuss this guy's reign in greater detail. You've done a good job of explaining his historical significance but have left out biograhical details that might aid in summarising the article. See if you can add another paragraph.
• "sparking a long era of proselytization and Christianization of previously frontier areas.[2]" is a little clumsily phrased - it might sound better as "Christian proselytization", and look again at previously frontier areas. It might make more sense to have these as "previously Muslim areas" given that we a re talking about Christian proselytization (if indeed the people being proselytized were Muslim).
• "It is argued that . . ." - by who?
• "this explanation may have had its origins in court gossip." - This is unclear; which explanation and how could it have origins in court gossip?
• What is the Paris Chronicle?
• "but there are a few pieces of information" - Name them
• The article needs substantially more background - what was Ethiopia like at this time, what was its chief religion, system of government, social cohesiveness? The article leaps straight into a discussion of Amda's Army without any real introduction or background either to the era, region or person. Think about reordering the paragraphs somewhat to address this.
• "was very effective" - how? Do you mean well-trained? Professional?
• "form a distinctive unit and fight together, maintaining their local character and were divided into smaller units each headed by a local ruler." - so do they fight together or in seperate units? Clarify this.
• "the right-wing commander" - I assume you mean he commanded the right wing of the army? Think about rewording as this phrase has a double meaning.
• "invading Hadiya and killed many people," - I've changed this example, but I've noticed that the article sometime switches tense in mid-sentence for no reason. Please have a careful read through to eliminate this kind of thing.
• "Amda Seyon responded swiftly, killing the governor," - Do you mean Igzi? If so, name him because more than one governor is mentioned.
• "(see Wegera (woreda), Tselemti, and Tsegede for the modern woredas)." If these correspond with the modern places then pipelink them, if they don't then there is no need to link to them at all, except perhaps to say "(these places do not correspond with the modern woredas Wegera (woreda), Tselemti, and Tsegede)".
• "similar to what his brother had done before him" - Clumsy. Try "in a similar way to the actions of his brother some years earlier".
• "collaborating with the ruler of Adel to encircle the Emperor, to which the ruler of Adal responded by mobilizing his forces." - Are Adel and Adal the same place?

The article ends very abruptly, what else happened in his reign? Did he reform government? Build anything of note? Have any children? how is he remembered today? By historians? Ethiopians? East African Muslims? When did he die? And how? Seriously, this article does not seem comprehensive at all, in addition to the glaring problems with prose. If this information is unknown, then there should be mention in the article of why so little is known about his life - lack of sources etc. The article has seven days to address these issues although if work is continuing then I'll give an extension. Good Luck.--Jackyd101 (talk) 10:29, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Seven days on and nothing. This article will be delisted. When the above problems are dealt with then this can be renominated at WP:GAN.--Jackyd101 (talk) 09:44, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Restore Amharic variation of his name

Amda Tsion is Amhara can someone reinstate the Amharic variant [1], [2], [3] The Supermind removed it after bogus reasoning. I'm not autoconfirmed. YonasJH (talk) 17:44, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

@YonasJH: Wikipedia is not translatory site with exception of pronunciation IPA. See Help:IPA/English. 1, We don't expect romanization in native_name[4], which state only native language (script) should be inserted, but not romanizing those translated. 2, Per MOS:LS, insertion of stuffs does not signify on topic [5], which states "The lead should identify the topic and summarize the body of the article with appropriate weight" in nutshell. The Supermind (talk) 19:51, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

@YonasJH: I restored the lead. @The Supermind: What you put in the edit summary doesn't reflect what you removed, very misleading. The issue is that you removed in the lead Amharic variations, translation of his name, and no mention of it in the edit summary. Dawit S Gondaria (talk) 00:18, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Dawit S Gondaria Thank u! YonasJH (talk) 16:46, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

Amharic & Geez characters

You can write Amda Seyon in at least two ways in Amharic characters which are both in the article, and they are all romanized differently according to different dictonaries because there is no agreed standard romanizing of Amharic. Both should stay in. Dawit S Gondaria (talk) 06:17, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

You can not write it in two ways. There is only one way. To say there are many ways doesn’t make sense. The romanization is not the same as spelling it. We are talking about formal Amharic spelling. Trust me no one spells Amda Seyon like this (አምደ ፅዮን). That makes it a spelling error in Amharic. The same applies for other words like, Abeya (አበየ) and Abeya (ዐበየ) those are two different meanings or Hibir (ሕብር) and Hibir (ኅብር). And by the way, I am not disruptive editing but simply correcting your mistake Dawit. I have even recommended you an authentic Amharic dictionary to check out written by Desta Teklewold. One of Amharas greatest linguists. Rogeman123 (talk) 01:21, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

@Dear @Rogeman123: no to your recommendations, provide the sources here. Plenty of people write Amda Seyon አምደ ፅዮን and not only the Geez/Amharic ዐምደ ጽዮን if you claim only ዐምደ ጽዮን is universal for Amda Seyon, prove it with a source. Desta Tekle Wold is one of dozens Amharic linguists who published a dictonary and is not the standard for all, interestingly he is one of those scholars who are of the opinion that Amhara borrowed syntax and vob from Oromos, def not a shared opinion by all. That aside

Tell me in what way አምደ ፅዮን is wrong? What does አምደ ፅዮን say and mean? You know what it says. Only difference between አምደ ፅዮን & ዐምደ ጽዮን is a neglible difference in pronounciation. What i don't get is why you are (seem to be) claiming ዐምደ ጽዮን is the only way to spell Amda Seyon? Dawit S Gondaria (talk) 02:15, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

Why don’t you provide a source that people spell አምደ ፅዮን like this. It’s as if you think that spelling it is correct but you do not provide the source for it too. Especially Seyon (ፅዮን), everyone spells it like this ጽዮን, like the Amhara media. Yes, Desta Tekle Wold is one of dozens Amharic linguists who published a dictonary. However he is one of the best along with Kidne Woldkifle. These were well respected Amharic linguists. And yes Amharic did borrow words from Oromo and vice-versa. The two ethnic groups share history together. And it wouldn’t be a surprise if some Amharas have Oromo ancestry and vice-versa. If you want to use pronunciations than add the romanization. If you think spelling Amda Seyon has many varieties why would you spell it this way (አምደ ፅዮን), rather then (ዐምደ ጽዮን) which is the Ge’ez spelling, in which Amharic borrowed. Amharic has the letter ዐ Āyn. It’s soft. So, ዐምድ is pronounced Āmd in Amharic, and was borrowed from Ge’ez. Along with the word Tseyon (ጽዮን). There are tons of words Amharic borrowed from Ge’ez that are spelled exactly the same way. Do you understand? The language has more Cushitic influence than Ge’ez. It’s best to read books from well educated old Amharic linguists. Like those I have mentioned. I will give you an example, when you spell “cat” do you spell it with a “k.” No, of course not that is grammatically incorrect. But they both pronounce the same right? Because “k” and “c” pronounce the same. However there are rules in English. Every language has rules. This includes Amharic. I don’t know what አምድ ፅዮን means but it sure doesn’t mean what you intend. “Why 3 Ha’s (ሀ/ሐ/ኀ), 2 Sa’s (ሰ/ሠ), 2 A’s (አ/ዐ) and 2 Tse’s (ጸ/ፀ)?” Copy this and read the article. Rogeman123 (talk) 03:42, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

I reported you to the Noticeboard because you have been pushing since the get go to remove characters, then replace them with romanized ones, and now you edit warring/reverting to versions where you claim the Geez/Amharic character ዐምደ ጽዮን is universal and as you told me to ‘‘trust you no one spells it’’ አምደ ፅዮን.

How about you stop reverting, stop giving me recommendations from your fav linguist and provide the sources that dispels አምደ ፅዮን and confirms your claim as ዐምደ ጽዮን as universal and the only way to write Amda Seyon.

On my part i will do my best to find a reliable source that writes Amda Seyon as አምደ ፅዮን. And answer to your last response Amharic አምደ ፅዮን means exactly the same as Geez/Amharic ዐምደ ጽዮን (Amda Seyon/Pillar of Zion) only a neglible difference in pronounaction. Dawit S Gondaria (talk) 04:59, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

Sources

ዓምጸ ጽዮን Amda Siyon Emperor of Ethiopia Dawit S Gondaria (talk) 16:11, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

Discussion

@Rogeman123: Like i said at the beginning, you can at least write Amda Seyon two ways, a third way is ዓምጸ ጽዮን as source indicates. Still waiting for you to back your funny claim that ዐምደ ፡ ጽዮን is the only way to write Amda Seyon. Dawit S Gondaria (talk) 16:10, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

Map & battle

Requesting a map showing the area Yekuno Amlak directly ruled contrasted with a map of Amde Seyon's conquests similar to the map of Menelik II's expansion on the Ethiopian Empire page. Of any mappers can upload to commons something similar to this it would work well. Also looking for anyone with info on the battle "of 13 kings" or "the crescent or the cross" which initially led to the conquest of Ifat — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.50.110.157 (talk) 05:35, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

Just increased its quality, who cares? BeteAmora (talk) 15:39, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Amde Seyon's depiction

The wikimedia commons description doesn't state that the fresco on the wall of Debre Birhan Selassie is of Emperor Iyasu, it literally states "Emperor Iyasu the Great, a grandson of Emperor Fasilides, built the Church of Debra Berhan Selassie, which means "The Light of the Trinity" in Amharic." Meaning: Iyasu I built the church, which is well known, NOT that he is the one painted on its wall. Likewise, the Fidel above the painting does not say "Iyasu." Since I don't want to "start an edit war," it should be reverted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BeteAmora (talk • contribs) 09:31, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

Well what evidence is there that this is Amda Seyon? محرر البوق (talk) 04:22, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Locations of Chewa regiments.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 12:21, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Authenticity

@197.156.97.81 Amelie Chekroun mentions that these chronicles are "so-called" due it being legendary/mythical to glorify his status. Replayerr (talk) 13:42, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

Chekroun doesn't at all use the phrase "so-called" in the cited page. Moreover the Scholar Mohammed Hassan praises the chronicles of Amda Seyon as an implication of rich literature during the Emperor's reign. Glockerov (talk) 16:16, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

Mohammed's position is a fringe theory. Chekroun references several academics that dismiss the claim for the chronicles being a first hand account. Magherbin (talk) 18:54, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

I also agree that the position is a fringe theory in contrast to the array of people referenced by Chekroun. Replayerr (talk) 19:21, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

No, it's not a fringe theory. Britannica also uses a similar parlance in their article on the Emperor without the phrase "so-called". Glockerov (talk) 07:16, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

I've included an additional source that declares the chronicle to be ostensibly eyewitness accounts written at least close to the event besides the praise Mohammad Hassan bestowed on the chronicle. Glockerov (talk) 07:50, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

I've added a third source confirming the authenticity of the chronicle and even stating it's believed to have been written by a monk who was present in the King's court and that's beside the renowned panegyric that is agreed to be contemporary by several scholars. Your "fringe theory" allegation is proved very fallacious so far and an attempt to remove the added sources will be considered disruptive and treated as such. Glockerov (talk) 08:07, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

I checked the first reference you've added from Carolina Academic Press [6]. The reference states "its believed" to have been a first hand account however the source discusses nothing about its authenticity. The other reference from Cambridge university [7] which is referenced on p.55 states the Amda Seyon chronicle is an "ostensibly eyewitness account". The term ostensibly means apparently or purportedly, but perhaps not actually. The Cambridge source goes on to state that it was probably written close to the events it describes, what that means is that its not a first hand account but written after. Now we dont know if it was months or years after the event, some minor parts of the chronicle may be first hand but due to the clear amalgamation of various other events its difficult to tell. Magherbin (talk) 07:42, 19 December 2024 (UTC)