Talk:Bloody Christmas (1963)

Who has been editing this article?

Who wrote this?

For a start, on: "Bloody Christmas' (Turkish: Kanlı Noel) is a term used mainly (but not exclusively) in Turkish Cypriot and Turkish historiography, referring to the outbreak of the tension between the Greek Cypriots and the Turkish Cypriots on the night between 20–21 December 1963 and the subsequent period of island-wide violence amounting to civil war.

The term Bloody Christmas is not used in official Greek Cypriot and Greek historiography, which contends that the outbreak of violenece was a result of a Turkish Cypriot rebellion (Tourkantarsia) against the lawful government of the Republic of Cyprus."

This is a needless and irrelevant diatribe of information. There's no need to dabble on with sentences like "a term used mainly (but not exclusively)" or "... in Turkish Cypriot and Turkish historiography". First of all, I think this needs to focus on one set of words and one explanation. Secondly, this is an article not on the term or its use, but on the event. For example, if you see the article on Christmas it doesn't say "is a term used mainly (but not exclusively by) Christians and Christian historiography". I also don't think it's appropriate to explain things in the way that you have; beyond the language not being consistent, the information and the references provided are taken slightly out of context. Also, it is not a term used mainly by the Turkish Cypriots. It is an event accepted by the Turkish Cypriots. Contrastingly the event is denied by the Greek Cypriots, and that also plays into the Greek Cypriot official discourse and the narrative it tries to push. There is a big difference between this and what you just suggested.

There are other places throughout the article where I'd like to make similar comments, but I'm not going to reference them all.

I suggest you take another look at the edits you're making to this article and substantially revise your edits. Nargothronde (talk) 03:56, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

p.s. be careful not to allow your attempts to make this article more neutral, as I've seen being suggested in some of the edit summaries, turn into subtle-POV pushing, partisan or bias etc, as that is kinda what I'm seeing here in these changes. See Tendentious Editing Nargothronde (talk) 04:01, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

p.s.2. ALSO, I'm seeing a lot of bias and strong pro-Greek Cypriot POV pushing and strong anti-Turkish Cypriot pushing in your language. It's rife with it. I'm also seeing a lot of polarising language being used here; most of it focuses on presenting a Turkish Cypriot VS Greek Cypriot narrative of things, as opposed to the previous version prior to these edits. I kindly suggest that is also looked into. Nargothronde (talk) 04:06, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

References

Nargothronde, who wrote it is rather irrelevant. We are not here to play a blame game. But you can use external tools in the history page and find out. But I wouldnt do it if I were you. Cinadon36 (talk) 13:17, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

• Thanks for bringing this up. You may wish to see this section on my talk page. Many of the edits pushed by that anonymous user do indeed contain severe POV and suppression of reliable sources that classify the official G/C position on this as denialism (Demetriou even makes parallels with Armenian Genocide denial). We may not, as Wikipedia, under any circumstances, act in contravention to established third-party literature to accommodate the views of Greek/Greek Cypriot right-wingers as if they should carry an equal weight in the representation of facts. We don't do that with Turkish right-wingers in many articles and we may not do so with Greek ones either. I did not revert the anonymous user's edits on account of their constructive stance (and indeed some bits were OK) but I haven't had the time to follow it up since. This article should most certainly be rectified. --GGT (talk) 00:53, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

But also, this is not OK. --GGT (talk) 01:29, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

Thanks Cinadon36 and GGT. I wasn't trying to start a blame game or call the editor out. I just wanted to highlight what GGT has just explained, and make a few suggestions. I think I'm still a fair bit away from knowing how to express things correctly,so thanks again for the advice! It's slowly but surely making me better understand what I should do and how I should go about it. My additions were just some suggestions. Maybe I can post them on the Talk Page for discussion. Also, if I want to post certain suggestions for a community consensus, how might I go about doing that? Thanks again! Nargothronde (talk) 02:37, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

Museum of Barbarism

Why stili ther is nothing about Museum of Barbarism in Lefkoşa-Nicosia which is place of infamous massacre of the whole family of major Nihat İlhan,3 children and their mother in their house, which is perpetrated by EOKA-B militants? Why the eager elaboration for Turkish side deeds is sudenly disappearing when it comes to Greek side's actions? Just wondering. --Baris365 (talk) 12:39, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Hi @Baris365:, why wont you add it, explaining the relevance with the topic, providing a suitable source? Cinadon36 12:47, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Hi @Cinadon36:, I am asking a question, not asking for your advice.--Baris365 (talk) 05:59, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

Well, I was just trying to be friendly and suggest you to edit WP the way you see appropriate, but to answer your Q: Apparently, because no-one inserted it.Cinadon36 06:15, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

Scope of the article

For some time I've been thinking about the correct way to organise our content on the conflict of 1963-64. This period was characterised by an intense outbreak of fighting until January 1964, the resumption of sporadic fighting across the island following the breakdown of the London Conference, and finally the Battle of Tillyria. Currently, we have this article on Bloody Christmas, which focuses on the outbreak of the conflict without a particular end date, a section on the general article on intercommunal violence that covers both the beginning and the battle of Tillyria but nothing in between, and a separate article on the battle. We also have an article on what is termed the 1964 Famagusta incident (this incident did truly happen, I've just noticed that article and will later work to resolve the POV/unreliable sourcing issue). My proposal is as follows:

1. A general article on the whole period titled something like "Cypriot conflict of 1963–64". This would incorporate a section on Bloody Christmas, a section on the battle of Tillyria and sections that could be separated into other articles if needed, e.g. the Famagusta massacre, clashes in Paphos and Limassol.
2. Keep this article as it is but limit its scope strictly to the buildup to the London Conference.
3. Keep the battle of Tillyria article as it is.
4. The discussion of historiography generally focuses on either the outbreak of violence or the battle of Tillyria so these sections can be kept within their respective articles.

Any objections?

--GGT (talk) 21:50, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

I ve been having the same thoughts @GGT:. Go for it. Pls let me know when you ll create the new article. Cinadon36 13:35, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Greek Cypriot official view

I am not convinced that a section entitled "Greek Cypriot official view" that includes so much against the Greek Cypriot view is a sub-heading fit for purpose??Eugene-elgato (talk) 11:34, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

I can not understand why is "Christmas" used in the naming of the events?

Reading about the events named as "Bloody Christmas", knowing not much about the internal conflict in Cyprus, I do not understand is there any relation between the Christian holiday with the events that happened, especially having in regard that the holiday is on 24th and 25th of December and the first incident happened on 21st.

Does the naming for some reason imply that the holiday was the reason for the events that happened or the events were organized to happen during the festival or it was just a coincidence, happening during the holiday, not having anyrelation with the holiday itself. 46.217.211.220 (talk) 11:02, 27 December 2024 (UTC)