Talk:Elham Kashefi

Please add election to FRSE

Elham Kashefi was elected a Fellow of the Royal Society of Edinburgh in 2024, see https://rse.org.uk/fellowship/fellow/professor-elham-kashefi-5843/ . Please expand the coverage of the article to reflect this, and use the postnominal FRSE after her name at the start of the article. Ramajoepanda (talk) 14:22, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi! Could you please clarify if you have any further conflict of interest beyond working for the same school? Also, please suggest a specific wording for what you'd like added - is it just "In 2024, Kashefi was elected a Fellow of the Royal Society of Edinburgh" to the end of the awards section? As for the second part, the guidelines on postnominals recommend not adding them to the lead - see WP:POSTNOMINAL. Rusalkii (talk) 05:19, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

I confirm I have no COI beyond working in the same School. I suggest revising the sentence in the awards section to "Kashefi was elected to the Young Academy of Scotland in 2011, and a Fellow of the Royal Society of Edinburgh in 2024." The date 2011 (which resolves the when? query currently on the page) is sourced from https://ekashefi.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/kasheficv-detailed-20141.pdf .

I note the advice on postnomials, but if you look at the wikipedia pages for almost all of the senior academic staff on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_of_Informatics,_University_of_Edinburgh you will find that the postnomials are in the lead. Based on the model of Aggelos Kiayias, I would recommend putting the FRSE postnomial after the Persian version of her name. BTW, the postnomial for Kashefi should also be added on the School of Informatics wikipedia page. Ramajoepanda (talk) 16:58, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Re: postnominals, WP:POSTNOMINAL is perfectly clear on this point. You are well aware that articles for academic staff at the University of Edinburgh are extensively created and curated by university staff (such as the article about you, which you authored yourself). The fact that those articles do not follow the relevant guidelines is not an excuse to attempt to impose incorrect interpretation of guidelines here. The relevant postnominals should be removed from all of the relevant articles, which is a suggestion that you might perhaps forward on to whoever masterminds the extensive conflict of interest editing from this university. To make a start on this I have removed the relevant postnominal from your own Wikipedia article. Axad12 (talk) 16:50, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

I've now removed the post-nominals from the ledes of the articles for all of the staff listed in the 'Current Senior Academic Staff' list in the School of Informatics, University of Edinburgh article.

I've not gone through the list of 'Notable Alumni' directly below that list, but a sample check indicates (as would be expected) that the great majority do not have post-nominals in the lede.

I have also removed the post-nominals from the lists themselves, as per usual style in other comparable lists. (See for example [1]). Axad12 (talk) 08:22, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

I kindly ask that my original request to update Elham Kashefi's page to include her election to the Fellowship of the RSE be addressed. I made this request on my own initiative, without prompting from anyone else. I did this because I wished to see her wikipedia page reflect properly her achievements. I followed what I believe is the correct procedure, to raise this on the talk page, and identify a potential COI. I now understand that I was incorrect about the the use of post-nominals in the lead sentence, and stand corrected. But I note that this issue occurs in the wikipedia pages of a large proportion of UK-based scientists, alive or dead, e.g., James Clerk Maxwell, Jocelyn Bell Burnell, Jonathan Van-Tam. You can try your own random sample. My beliefs about the use of post-nominals in wikipedia was based on such empirical evidence. Ramajoepanda (talk) 18:27, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for your comments.

As per your suggestion, earlier this afternoon I did actually conduct my own random sample. I went to the article for James Clerk Maxwell, the first name on your list, and then to the foot of that article and chose a list a random, which ended up being this one [2]. It's a list of academics rather than scientists, but since scientists are treated no differently to other academics in the relevant policy I felt the difference was trivial. I then selected the 5th, 10th, 15th, etc names on the list in the sections of surnames A and B. What I found, as anticipated, was that the majority of articles visited did not have post-nominals in the lead sentence.

It may well be that you are right in observing that scientists are more likely to have post-nominals in their lead sentence than other types of academic. I'm not sure of the reason for that although it does seem to me (anecdotally at least) that scientists perhaps have a greater propensity to create and/or edit their own articles. I suppose it's ultimately academic (no pun intended) because the relevant Wikipedia guideline is clear re: post-nominals not being in the lead sentence (regardless of science or arts specialisation).

To address your main point, this afternoon I shall add the requested sentence to the Elham Kashefi article. I propose that I add it in exactly the same format that you have used in your own article, i.e. in a new section at the foot titled 'Awards and Honours', saying 'In 2024 Elham Kashefi was elected a Fellow of the Royal Society of Edinburgh (FRSE).' and then the link you have kindly provided in your original request.

I should also add (indeed I should have said it at a much earlier juncture) that you are to be thanked for the very responsible way that you've gone about both this request and the previous notification of your own conflict of interest at WP:COIN. It's a misfortune that that there has been so much undeclared COI editing on other similar articles, which may well have been a contributory factor re: the empirical evidence that formed you previous belief on post-nominals. Axad12 (talk) 12:50, 19 September 2024 (UTC)