User talk:Urthogie/Archive1

Welcome

Hi Urthogie, and welcome to Wikipedia.

Thankyou for finding the time to sign up and contribute to our little project. If you're in doubt about anything, you might want to check out some of these pages:

• Welcome, newcomers - a general introduction, and a good starting point
• The help centre and FAQs
• The Manual of Style - a guide to the community's writing conventions

It's also a good idea to sign the new user log and add a little about yourself.

When contributing to a talk page, you can sign your name by typing four tildes after your comments, like this: ~~~~. (Just so you know, some people won't pay attention to unsigned comments).

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask me at my talk page, or at the Help desk or Village Pump.

Above all, make sure you be bold when contributing, and have fun!

I award this Barnstar for your hard work. You ass.

-- TPK 01:59, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for welcoming me. I hope i'm doing a good job so far.--Urthogie 15:16, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

All those Yahoo!s

I notice you've gone round lots of Yahoo!-related pages, tagging them as candidaes for merger. I think you're right that a lot of these are likely to never amount to much, so would agree with merging; but I think some of them are worth preserving and improving instead. I've left a note on Talk:Yahoo! going into my reasoning a bit further. Happy wikiing. - IMSoP 19:58, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Ska-P

Hello,

I have posted a proposal on Talk:Ska-P about the big cut-out you made to the Ska-P article. Hashar 11:30, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Substubs

I've just speedy-deleted Category:Substubs. This much-hated category was emptied and deleted to resounding cheers after a huge effort over the course of six months by Wikipedia: WikiProject Stub sorting. It was not wanted then, and it is not wanted now. We'd all appreciate it if you didn't try to revive it! Grutness...wha? 07:11, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

I only had it redirect to regular stubs! Doesn't that make sense? Urthogie 16:40, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Not really, for several reasons:

1. The only way something goes into a stub category is by template - and no templates point to Category:Substubs, so it would never be used;
2. Redirection of categories is a fairly dodgy process at best, and usually better avoided;
3. Since the term "substub" has been downgraded to the point where people are no longer thinking of them as being separate from stubs, re-introducing the term - even as a redirect - is not a good move.

In any case, there are items on just about every stub-related page on Wikipedia saying that if you want to make a stub category or template (and that includes redirects), you really should talk to the Stub-sorting WikiProject first. Grutness...wha? 01:18, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

Development ideas

I'm sorry, but as a developer, I am still not convinced. I have a login on the bugs and features database for Wikipedia and if you see the long list of things they already have to implement and fix, I don't think they are not going to make high priority of something that will need loads of conditional statements just to make it so that people don't have to make the first appearence of the article title bold. Especially since 95% of the articles are probably already correct.
The idea about the redirects will never go in my opinion. That would be bad development tactics. Basically because it is a human error if there are that many redirects and it should be corrected just the same as if a link was set wrong. But you don't have to take my word for it. Like I said, I don't work on the Wiki code. It is just my opinion. --None-of-the-Above 22:38, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

Hip hop stub

Hi Urthogie... I see you created a new hip-hop stub category - but I also see you forgot about the discussion re: the naming of it! I've moved the template to {{Hiphop-stub}} (I've left the one you made as a redirect). Grutness...wha? 01:21, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

talk:AdBusters

Pleasee see the discussion of your edits at talk:AdBusters. Unless we get osme sources for your edits they will be removed again. Thanks, -Willmcw 07:36, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

Categories for stub templates

The reason main categories are not put on stub templates is that having the stub template on the article is temporary. So if one relies on the stub template to categorize the article, when the article is expanded and the template removed, the article will no longer be in the desired category. (This is why virtually all stub templates only have one category - the stub category associated with the template.) --Mairi 05:01, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

explanation of my revert

I did explain my revert, on the discussion page, before I made it. Let's work toward a compromise. Rick Norwood 23:43, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

Rapping

We can't refer to the talk pages in articles. The whole "hip-hop: is it music or not?" debate actually belongs in the hip-hop music article, but it needs to be properly referenced fro ma reliable source. Otherwise, it will read as an unpublished opinion. (I also want to apoligize for my edit summary in the article: I didn't thoroughly read the section, and thought it was a repost of the one of the vandals' paragraphs about "rap" not being real music). --FuriousFreddy 03:30, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Rapping

Great work on the Rapping page. Loved your freestyle. Can't bring myself to reverting it :)TimMony 01:11, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I did. Wikipedia articles have to read like professional encyclopedia entries, and we just can't do things like posting our own freestyles. I did some revision work: much of the history of political influences in hip hop music is already written up at hip hop music and alternative hip hop. --FuriousFreddy 02:42, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Fixing them (although I must say I've never seen a non-freestlyed battle. Not that they dn't exist...I've just never seen one. Seen lots and lots and lots of freestyle battles...rganized, spontaneous, and the like). Also, always sign your messages when posting on talk pages. Just type two dashes and four tildes, like this: "--~~~~", and when you save the message, your signature will appear in places of the "--~~~~" --FuriousFreddy 03:01, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, I merely forgot over there, my mistake...in my experience ive never SEEN a freestyle battle. I've seen battles, that include anything the rappers can do to diss each other. but the phrase freestyle battle seems to suggest that its required, and in my experience freestyle doesnt include canned lyrics(kind of ironic how its free then, huh). In the loosely quoted words of the undefeated Jin, you bring whatever you can to a battle to whoop the other guys ass..be it freestyles, prepared, or whatever. So yeah, perhaps we should also address the confusion surrounding the term itself in the article, because clearly BET thinks that all of these guys are freestyling on "FREESTYLE Friday" when they rarely are probably.--Urthogie 03:06, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Freestyle battles I've been to will disqualify you if it sounds like you're reciting a written. --FuriousFreddy 18:57, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

The image

File:Doug E Fresh.jpg

You can't really take images from the internet that don't fall into specific categories, or have specific copyright sources. The safest images for musicians are official promotional pictures, album covers, and screenshots (with album covers ususally being the easiest to impement). Soeone's going to delete the Doug E. Fresh image; it would probably be best to find an album cover and use that instead. --FuriousFreddy 22:10, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

I'll check out his album art, i liked this one cus hes the greatest entertainer and hes got the mic right there..but maybe his album art is the same..thx Urthogie 22:28, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

K im fixin it--Urthogie 22:46, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Your helpdesk question on refs

Hi there, I've answered your helpdesk question (according to me, the answer is "after"). By the way, people who answer helpdesk questions can't always necessarily answer all of them. To me it seems like annoying behaviour that you bugged jnothman about it on his talk page - he may not have felt qualified to answer your question, or he may not have understood what you were asking, as it was a very brief question. Happy editing! --LesleyW 23:49, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Aight point taken. --Urthogie 00:05, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Coke la Rock

Calling him the first MC, cited to a source, is fine. There's a difference between being the first MC and the first rapper. Rapping has been around for a very long time, which is what I was referring to. I wasn't aware he was considered the first MC, so putting that in the article would be fine. Tuf-Kat 05:48, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Your note on my talk page

hey i noticed you answer a lot of help desk questions, could you answer mine on sourcing?

I do answer a lot of questions... But I still don't know everything! I had thought that Wikipedia did not have a style policy with regards to your question, and the answers given by LesleyW and pfctdayelise seemed to confirm this. One of the advantages of the Help Desk as it is is that many users can reply if the first who tries doesn't have an answer. Sometimes, though, that means you need a little patience. Thanks for waiting! =)

PS: You're the first person I've seen marked to speak Yiddish but not Hebrew! And seeing as you're categoried as an Israeli Wikipedian, that's also a little unexpected!

jnothman ^talk 23:06, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

well all jews are israelis cus of the duel citizenship thing we get...i used to know hebrew but forgot it...and i use a lotta yiddish in my everyday--Urthogie 23:27, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Ahh right... Well you don't know then, I guess, that there is a separate category for Jewish Wikipedians. There is even a user box you can put on your homepage (use {{user religion|jew}}, and at least two WikiProjects (WikiProject Judaism; WikiProject Jewish culture). jnothman ^talk 22:15, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Hip hop music

What's factually disputed here? And it is true that the main vocal (if there is one) is always rapped in a hip-hop song. Hip-hop songs may have R&B hooks, but there is no real singing in a hip-hop song. --FuriousFreddy 18:48, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't agree, take a track like Midnight in a Perfect World by DJ Shadow and you'll have no rap, and the focus on the singer with the hip-hop beat.--Urthogie 20:01, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

not to mention Nate Dogg!!--Urthogie 11:59, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Initial Paragraph

keep on discussion on the talk page. thanx. C trillos

Don't do it

I wouldn't dream of editing your user page and leaving didactic notes. Kindly refrain from doing so to mine. You have neither the right nor the authority to do so. Consider this a friendly warning. deeceevoice 20:36, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

I was under the impression you were being vandalized with words like NIGGER and SIEG HIEL.--Urthogie 20:55, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Oh, apparently you've kept them to maintain a victim complex. Wow. Do you really think the Jewish editors quit wikipedia if our pages our set to say stuff like that? You aren't being oppressed, i get so much bullshit on the internet as well for my culture.--Urthogie 20:58, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Whatever my motives may be, what do you care? Don't touch my user page. Since under this identity, at least, you're a newcomer, I'll say it once more in case you didn't understand me the first time: don't do it. You have neither the right nor the authority. Besides, after our interaction at Cool (African philosophy), your actions might be taken the wrong way -- if you get my meaning. Enjoy your stay at Wikipedia. :) deeceevoice 21:09, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

The invincible microphone fiend Rakim

I've noticed you making a lot of edits to Rapping based on stuff in Kool Moe Dee's book. I'm planning to overhaul the Rakim article, which currently kinda sucks, and I could do with some sourced stuff to support my gushing praise. Think you could provide me with a couple of quotations about Rakim from it? Thanks... --Jamieli 17:22, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Hehe, great book(a bit too overly scientific for such a subjective thing imho). I've been adding a lot more sources, by the way, to rapping so there 9 now.

As far as the book, I don't own it. I read it like a bastard sitting at borders. But this should help you immensely: [1] --Urthogie 17:31, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Rapping

I'm not sure the article is moving in the right direction. For starters, we never ever use Wikipedia articles as references. Also, a lot of the new sections need cleanup and formatting corrections. Always remember that Wikipedia articles have to be written in an accessible, yet college-level, tone. I really want to help more, but I'm just not able to contribute much time or focus anymore. --FuriousFreddy 22:17, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

I think that we're adding a lot of content, and you missing definitely takes out an element of professionality-- im only 16! I think you should give me some credit though for adding all those sources, and trying to fill up the sections. I'm hoping to get the content in first then work on getting the right tone. Any other suggestions?--Urthogie 02:56, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

I'd have to agree with F.F. here. In fact, I much preferred the version of the page way back months ago before all those cringeworthy categories of technique were added: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rapping&oldid=19500431 . There should be a more in-depth explanation of rap technique but stuff like "Vocabulary: Many hip-hop listeners believe that a rapper's lyrics are enhanced by their vocabulary." and "Style, voice, tone, and attitude: These terms are essentially the emotions and personality expressed by a rapper in his or her lyrics and delivery." is just awful. The pre-hip hop history is also pretty meandersome; you hardly need to explain slavery. Like Freddy I don't have the time to give the page the overhaul it needs, unfortunately. Forgive me for horning in on this discussion by the way; when i left the above message about Rakim I (correctly) didn't think Urthogie would follow the standard practice of replying on the user's talk page rather than your own, and put it on my watchlist, which is how i noticed this discussion. --Jamieli 04:05, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm still a newbie to wikipedia and wasn't aware you're supposed to reply on their talkpage(oops). What you guys need to understand is that I'm setting the content framework now, and will un-stub each section when I get to it. Style, voice, tone, and attitude originally had a description but I think someone else(FF?) changed it to explain the subjectivity. Expect the page to get better, I'm still workin on it.--Urthogie 20:40, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

MC

Hi, i discovered you on the reference desk and went to your userpage. I followed the link of MC to find that it goes to a list of possible meanings. Maybe you could pipe link it to go to Master of Ceremonies? You can contact me on my discussion page, --Ali K 04:32, 27 December 2005 (UTC) Only happy to help! :)